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re: ACP

Hi,

while giving a credit to SC management for introducing the ACP (Advanced Charting Platform) I hope it won't become (at least in the near future) a permanent REPLACEMENT of the standard StockCharts interface on which I "grew up" and have been enjoying tremendously.

Having said that I wonder if anybody knows:
1. is there a dedicated learning site/chapter/unit regarding the ACP that I don't know of?
2. in current ACP layout, is it possible to move a CHART SETTINGS panel from the left to the right side of a MAIN CHART WINDOW and subsequently a CHART LIST panel to the left side of the WINDOW (basically reversing location of the two)?.

Thanks,

Chris

Comments

  • lmkwinlmkwin ✭✭
    I don't think that there is any intention to replace the standard system with ACP. It's been called an additional option. I personally don't think it's a "flexible" nor robust as the standard system.

    I haven't found a dedicated site or tutorials, even though Grayson is hyping the heck out of the versatility and customization.

    https://stockcharts.com/articles/chartwatchers/2020/07/stockchartsacp-v10-has-arrived-904.html

    On this video (around 36 minute mark) he claims there are "a ton of help docs" in ACP using the question mark in the upper right.


  • Thanks a lot Imkwin, much appreciate the two links and ...... some piece of mind regarding the SC standard system that I am sensing from your comment; good to know!.
    Best regards,
    Chris
  • Chip has said on his Saturday StockchartsTV show that the legacy chart system is not going away. ACP is an expansion of tools available, not a replacement.
  • lmkwinlmkwin ✭✭
    Something I'm not fond of is that they have added "new" indicators to the ACP, via the Plug Ins, that are NOT available currently in the standard system. I certainly hope that this is not the wave of the future at StockCharts.

    I've only found the multi pane option, synced, with different time frames as a possible benefit for me in ACP. But, it's not something that seems to stick. I also prefer to use Point and Figure charts, not an option. Renko is my 2nd choice, not an option. Heikin Ashi my 3rd choice, not an option.
  • My guess is there will be maintenance but not much upgrading to the legacy system, assuming ACP becomes popular with subscribers, especially new subscribers.
  • lmkwinlmkwin ✭✭
    ME:
    I notice that StockCharts has added some new indicators to ACP via the use of Plug Ins. Are those indicators going to become available in the legacy system, for use in scans and alerts?

    STOCKCHARTS response:

    Thank you for contacting us. At this time, plugins are only available in the ACP tool. They will not be available in our SharpChart tool.
  • ACP ......

    I find the new ACP program EXTREMELY difficult to use.

    1) Why create an entirely new platform ??? ... This will never be able to compare with well established trading platforms like Think or Swim.

    2) The original platform was smooth, elegant, and quite useful. Instead of having the programmers work on an entirely new platform, they should have spent that time just improving the original one. I am amazed that it still only offers about 8 colors. How hard would it be to add more? And to fix the broken and potentially quite useful gallery view? And to add more indicators? And to add new features like automatically colored lines, like MACD up is green?

    3) Other programs like TC2000 and TOS have pop ups for modifying the charts. Clean, simple, effective. Not this one. Need to fix an indicatior, the chart moves sideways. Adding or changing indicators is extremely non-normal. It should be click, click, done. Even more confusing is all the various icons scattered left, top, and right around the view panel. Simple drop down lists, or a clean view bar across the top would have worked fine.

    4) If I want a brokerage I will use my Fidelity account. I don't need a brokerage linked here. I don't want anyone to risk accessing my accounts.

    5) Why can't the original program display split views - 2, 3, or 4 etc. charts on one view? This is such a basic charting feature for trading. Yes, it can be done in ACP, but don't want to jump in and out of ACP just to use this feature. The Candleglance styles of mini charts is great. Then I need to jump into ACP to change views. What a mess - 2 different programs.

    6) ... and on .... and on .... and on .....



  • lmkwinlmkwin ✭✭
    ACP is not an attractive option for me either. It reminds me of a move that another site I use did, before the original owners sold out their shares to a venture capital firm/fund.

    The site was Dorsey Wright Associates. The two Principals of that business were Tom Dorsey, a pioneer in the ETF world and a noted author in the Point and Figure world and Watson Wright. 50/50 owners. They had a 5 person operation that grew to a 25 person operation. They built a tremendous business and website geared toward tools that brokers and financial advisors can use to build their practices, separate themselves from the competition, and created indexes that are sold to ETF sponsors.

    They only got better and better each and every year. Their tech staff was very skilled and sharp and always seeking feedback and then implementing those suggestions from users. Users and licensing indexes were what drove the business. They knew that and they grew. Fast forward to 2011, Watson decides to retire. The value of the company, at that point, requires a new investor come in to buy his shares. They select Falfurias, a venture capital firm, for an investment of 50 million dollars. Watson retires, Dorsey becomes a figure head and claims that they chose Falfurias as their partner and nothing would change. Venture capital firms look to spin their investments as quickly as possible. They wanted to make changes to dress up the business for resale. By 2013 they implemented their version of ACP and canned their legacy system and quietly canned the legacy staff. Their new system was not as good, had fewer features as the old one, terrible glitches and crashes, for months and months. The nice thing, for them, was that it was built on a "modern" platform so they could hire anyone they wanted to work on it. They stopped assisting users, raised their prices and blew up their message boards with decades of knowledge and discussions on it. Fast forward to 2015, Falfurias and Dorsey sell the company to Nasdaq for 225 million.

    Nothing wrong with capitalism but, the users lost. Since the sale, the site has become an afterthought for a large company like Nasdaq. They were really only interested in the Indexes they could monetize.

    When I heard that there was no intention to add the new indicators into the legacy system, for scanning and alerts, a little bell went off. This time may be different, but, maybe not. Grayson is VERY excited about ACP. The only reason I'm still a member there is their Portfolio Tool. If SC added a portfolio tool, I'd drop my DWA membership. But, of course, SC is tight lipped and offers few clues as to what they're plans are, other than improving ACP.
  • I think at least some of the misgivings about ACP might be due to natural resistance to something new, and may be born of frustration with the learning curve.

    If you come from another platform, like TOS, you may expect similar things to be done in a similar way. I know I felt VERY frustrated trying to understand how to use TOS after using (legacy) Stockcharts for many years (I tried TOS for real time futures, not from dissatisfaction with Stockcharts). It all seemed counter intuitive.

    Now that I get it, I really like TOS, especially for annotation and changing chart length on the fly. Going back to ACP, I think, oh no, do I have to learn another way all over again? I haven't decided what to do about it. I don't feel like I need ACP to swing trade stocks, and ACP doesn't yet offer day trading for futures, so I don't have a good reason, other than adding a skill to the quiver.

    But, I think ACP has a lot of potential. I think it does things differently because unlike TOS or TC200, it is totally web-based, with no desktop components. Unfortunately, like anything that has a lot of flexibility, it has a fairly steep learning curve (but not as steep as TOS). But, I would encourage an open mind and a little practice before making a judgement.

    P.S. You can display more than one chart at a time by entering another symbol in the symbol box and clicking on the adjacent "+" icon.
  • lmkwinlmkwin ✭✭
    Scottrade had a good platform called Scottrade Elite. They made modifications based on User requirements and feedback and it became great. Scottrade got bought by TDA with their Think or Swim platform. TOS improved considerably within the 1st year but still pales in comparison to the old Elite platform. Now Schwab is/ has purchased TDA. They have pushed off the merger until the "2nd half" of 2020 but my broker says that they won't be expecting any changes to the current platforms until 2021.

    I don't know what Schwab's platform Streetsmart Edge is like, but I'm sure it will change with integration to TOS.

    That being said, TOS has been having issues the last couple days. I wonder if they are testing integration to Streetsmart tools?
  • I always have an interest in learning new and better trading software.

    However, ACP is INFERIOR to EVERY other major trading software. TC2000, original Stock Charts, TOS, Metastock, Trading View, etc.

    It is impossible to name even one charting platform that ACP is superior to. ... not even one ...

    Again ... I am befuddled as to WHY SC moved in this direction - to ABANDON their elegant original SC platform, to REJECT improving it any more, and to START FROM SCRATCH to build a new method. ... and then to release it when it obviously does FAR LESS than its original.

    ... sad ... very sad ...

  • I'm sorry you feel that way.

    It's worth keeping in mind that the competition you mentioned have been around longer and many are A LOT more expensive than Stockcharts, and have a pretty steep learning curve. Also, I think you underestimate the Stockcharts development team. I'm pretty confident they will be upgrading continuously.

    As for scanning, if you don't have a programming background, good luck with TOS or Metastock or the others. In comparison, the Stockcharts scanning language is remarkable for its simplicity, flexibility and learnability.

    As for why they did it - many subscribers have been with Stockcharts for a long time, and have invested considerable time developing chart lists, styles and especially scans. I think they would like to preserve their investment while also having access to more charting choices.

    All that said, I'm sure your useful criticisms will come to the attention of the developers and will be given serious consideration.
  • lmkwinlmkwin ✭✭
    Personally, I'm just concerned that they apparently added indicators to ACP and have no intention of making them available in scanning and alerts. They added things that are apparently of value in ACP but not valuable enough to allow use in scanning and alerts. That is NOT a positive development.

    We'll see if that add the chart types I use in ACP. I'll go out on a limb and say, no. In the legacy system I haven't seen an improvement in the PnF charts in the years I've been a member. Nothing. Even simple suggestions like making the Full Quote option available in the header. Right now, the PnF chart is lacking useful and necessary information (dividend being of utmost importance) but.... nothing. Allow user defined attributes on the indicators. Seems logical and simple. If I want a blue line for the MA, allow me to make a blue line for the MA. Nope. Horizontal lines? If we ever get around to updating that area of the site, we'll think about it. I am complaining but I've adjusted.

    They've added integration to a specific broker. That's got to be a positive development, right?
  • I understand your frustration. I'm guessing that the demand for P&F is not there - although SC could potentially capture a niche market if they wanted to. Or maybe Dorsey and friends already own it and its not worth it.

    As for the plug-ins - my guess is Stockcharts did not develop those plug-ins. That's the point of plug-ins - you can offer them to your subscribers without the development costs. I would think that if any particular plug-in turns out to be very popular there would be a demand among subscribers to put them on legacy charts. Then you could cost-justify the development costs and fund the royalties to the authors, if it works like that.
  • I agree with AZB, sort of…
    "Again ... I am befuddled as to WHY SC moved in this direction - to ABANDON their elegant original SC platform, to REJECT improving it any more, and to START FROM SCRATCH to build a new method. ... and then to release it when it obviously does FAR LESS than its original."

    For me SC value is analysis — things like scanning, vast array of markets and tickers, indicators…. Unfortunately, things like annotation and charts saved as .png seems to be from the dark ages, technologically speaking.

    Trading from a chart does me no good since I'm in Canada and trade mostly options. When my renewal date arrived I almost went with Barchart because of their integration with MotiveWave as well as Futures.

    Someday ACP may become what Grayson thinks is the most advanced charting system on the planet, it's certainly not there at the moment and, given the current pace of change, it's not obvious when, or if, it will ever get there.
  • lmkwinlmkwin ✭✭
    More indicators that aren't going to be available for scanning to come:

    https://stockcharts.com/marketplace/acp/

    I imagine that many, many stockcharts users were pestering support for something ACP like. With indicators that can't be used for scanning.

    I know this forum is often filled with people yearning to scroll on a chart with their mouse wheel.

    I'm being sarcastic. I appreciate all that they do, do. I just like to see "improvements" be improvements for me. Selfish, I know.

  • And ACP gives them another revenue stream. Allowing indicators to be purchased while not having them available for scanning.

    "High-Low Range Percent is part of the TrendInvestorPro Indicator Edge Plug-In for StockCharts ACP. Here is a link for explanations with chart examples and here is a link for pricing."

    https://stockcharts.com/marketplace/acp/trend-investor-pro.html

    " ACP is designed to empower YOU - the modern investor. Create advanced technical charts with ease, choosing from dozens of indicators, overlays, display settings and color schemes. Configure and store customizable layouts with multiple charts on your screen at once. With an ultra-dynamic, highly-flexible charting experience, ACP is designed to redefine the way that you see and analyze the financial markets, with more technical tools and capabilities than ever before."
  • Yes, it is now obviously another sales platform. It is NOT an improvement in charting.

    Same with the TV shows for that matter - all the presenters trying to sell their personal websites.

    Name me one improvement in the charting platform in the past year or so ... there have been none ...
  • You are NOT a modern investor then.

    I'm being sarcastic. I'm apparently not one myself.

    StockCharts did add some technical indicators to the Scan workbench. They have also improved the RRG charts. There are other improvements as well. StockCharts TV is an improvement. Yes, the content does allow the presenter to pitch their sights/services if they want to. I don't see that as too much of an issue.

    The added Symbol Summary, which is good right now and looks to be on the agenda for improving. Hopefully they can integrate some of that into scanning availability. I really like it.

    They haven't given up on improvements. I wish that some of my suggestions would be implemented on the PnF charts, but I have it where it works for me. It's much better than any other site I use. My broker is TDA and their TOS platform isn't robust, transparent, nor simple. Many of their indicators only work correctly on day or less time frames. I'm an investor, rely on weekly and monthly charts. I don't have confidence doing that on TDA.

    It would have been great if they had made the new indicators that are available on ACP, to be available in the legacy system.
  • I'm guessing the move to plug-ins may have to do with copyright and licensing issues. Not all indicators are in the public domain, so for Stockcharts to offer them they would have to pay those fees out of subscription revenue for each additional indicator, so subscription prices would have to go up. Whereas with plug-ins the subscriber pays directly and subscription prices can stay where they are (except for inflation). This actually makes sense. There are literally hundreds of plug-ins and their popularity comes and goes. If I don't use a plug-in indicator, why should I pay for it? Leaving it up to the subscriber to add the ones that work for him is probably the most flexible and cost effective way to handle things for the all parties.
  • If the subscription prices were higher, StockCharts is still a great value in my opinion. Hopefully your ala carte suggestion becomes valid and I can stop paying for the things that I can easily live without on the site. Crypto? ACP? Being a self identified non-Modern investor, that would be wonderful.
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